FY 2009 Environmental Protection Agency Budget
- Stephen L. Johnson, EPA Administrator
10:12 Johnson: As the administration sprints to the finish line, I believe this budget keeps it on the path to a cleaner future. With both demand and cost on the rise, innovators are pushing clean energy solutions. We estimate industry will explore thousands of oil and gas wells on tribal and national lands. The budget requests hundreds of new staff to assist our partners assess the projects.
The budget also attempts to address the serious challenge of global climate change.
The budget supports EPA’s collaborative work to protect our waterways. I’m proud of our response to hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
10:17 AM Feinstein The legal justification for your waiver rests heavily on the 1967 decision. In 1977 Congress amended the Clean Air Act, changing the language and intent of Section 209. The committee language stated that the intent was to provide California the broadest latitude possible. Your waiver justification document does not mention Congressional intent in 1977. Why?
Johnson I am bound by Section 209 and there are three very specific criteria. I only looked at one. Based on the record before me, again, affording California the broadest discretion, it does not mean that I am a rubber stamp. It is not a popularity contest.
10:49 Craig Sitting on EPW we get two bites at you. Today I won’t chew as hard.
Feinstein Even though that section allows other states to adopt California’s standards?
Johnson You raise a very good point. Section 209 and the law and the criteria does not allow me to consider what other states may or may not do. As I pointed out the more states that believe greenhouse gas emissions is a problem are making the very point that California is not unique. It is not exclusive. Rather it is a national problem requiring a national solution.
Feinstein According to the Washington Post, you overruled your legal and technical staff last October. Did a single one of your staff support a flat denial?
Johnson They presented me with a wide range of options, from approving to denying the waiver. They were all presented to me as legally defensible options. I appreciate the opportunity for their candid input, but the Clean Air Act gives me the responsibility alone.
Feinstein You are saying the technical and legal staff recommended approving the waiver. Is that correct?
Johnson They presented me with a wide range of options, from approving to denying the waiver. Generally it is my approach to ask for input, if they choose to give input, that’s fine. Routinely I seek input.
Feinstein We’ve been told that none of the staff was in favor of denying the waiver.
Johnson I received a range of options.
Feinstein I know that.
Johnson I respect the opportunity to receive candid opinions. My decision is not based on a popularity contest of opinions.
Feinstein You’re not answering the question, but there’s nothing I can do but interpret your non-answer.
10:26: Feinstein You’ve missed your 2007 deadline to make the health endangerment finding. Will you respect the direction of the highest court of the land?
Johnson I will commit to that we will make the decision. We are working on the implementation regulations. We have a number of court-ordered deadlines.
Feinstein When might we expect this?
Johnson I don’t have a date, but I assure you we will respond to Mass vs. EPA.
10:28 Allard I have some concerns about enforcement.
10:39 Leahy I’m going to divert for just a moment. I want to talk about mercury pollution. Your agency had the mercury rule. I said at the time I thought it was wrong. On February 8 the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit, a very conservative court, agreed with my position and struck down your rule. If you had listened to my opinion you could have saved taxpayers significant fees. Does your agency plan to abide by the Clean Air Act, by the law?
Johnson Thank you for the question. Always follow the law, sir. The EPA and DOJ are currently evaluating the decision. We haven’t decided on a course of action. We also recognize because of the Clean Air Interstate Rule we have early reductions of mercury. We are disappointed the first regulation of mercury was struck down. We’re evaluating that now.
Leahy The court made their decision based on the arguments heard in the case. The AP reports officials have threatened states with disapproval for adopting more aggressive mercury regulations, despite what the EPA said in the court. If there was a misrepresentation by the government to the court that’s a serious matter. Have officials ever threatened states against instituting mercury regulations?
Johnson I don’t recall any firsthand knowledge. I don’t know if they have.
Leahy Will you go back and find out?
Johnson I’ll be happy to respond for the record.
Leahy I would like to know the answer. If the AP is correct, then the EPA gave misleading information to the courts. The courts, the Judiciary Committee would consider it a very serious matter. You adopted the Mercury Trading Rule in 2005 and committed to reducing mercury hot spots.
Johnson We haven’t decided yet.
10:50 Feinstein I believe very firmly your staff was in favor of the waiver unless you tell me otherwise. Did any other people in the administration weigh in on the waiver?
Johnson I received many opinions, the decision was my own.
Feinstein Did you discuss this with the White House?
Johnson I discuss major issues with the White House, I think that’s good government.
Feinstein I read the 48 pages. I find it not at all impressive. I think it is harmful to our state and the country. I’d like to go back to the remand. You have not given me a firm date. I find this unbelievable on what is called an Environmental Protection Agency, not an Administration Protection Agency.
Johnson I respectfully disagree that this is an easy decision. Justice Scalia set it up as a three-part test for me. If I find there is endangerment, I must regulate. If I find that there is not endangerment, I should not regulate. If there are other factors I need to consider them. The way the Clean Air Act operates, a decision in the regulation of mobile sources could have a significant impact on stationary sources. I know people are anxious for me to get on with business. Climate change is a serious issue. It’s one I’m carefully considering. Airlines, off-roads, marine, I could go on and on.
Feinstein How many personnel are working on the endangerment finding?
Johnson I don’t know exactly.
Feinstein We’ve been told noone is working on it. Is anyone working on it?
Johnson I know I am working on what are the next steps. It’s what I’m currently evaluating.
Feinstein How many of your staff are working on the endangerment finding?
Johnson I don’t know. I am currently evaluating what are the next steps to take in response to the Supreme Court, the Energy Act, the numerous petitions. I know we have staff working on a myriad issues. I know we have people working on major economies, reviewing McCain-Lieberman legislation, the Greenhouse Gas Registry. We have a lot of issues we’re working on.
Feinstein What I deduce is that none of your staff is working on it. I’ve got to believe you’re stonewalling.
Johnson I’m not stonewalling.
11:10 Feinstein Have you taken every Congressional earmark out of this budget?
Johnson I am told by our staff that the answer is yes.
11:30 Argument with Ted Stevens and Johnson over earmarks (and the definition of an earmark) and funding water and sewer facilities Alaskan villages.
11:37 Stevens I’m trying to seek re-election now. I don’t understand why it’s been reduced.
Stevens What did you ask the president for?
Johnson I support the president’s budget.
Stevens You going to answer my questions, sir?
Johnson brings in EPA water guy.
Stevens You can tell me what you requested OMB this year. What was that amount?
EPA water guy We requested the amount consistent with the 2004 request.
Stevens This is not a spending program, it’s a loan program.
Feinstein My staff says we never agreed to this.
Stevens This policy forces earmarks. It’s bureaucratic arrogance. Having served eight years in another administration, I don’t appreciate this. It sounds like your 04 was sacrosanct as far the government is concerned. It’s a crazy system. The Greenhouse Gas Registry. The White House proposed no money for this program. Sen. Klobuchar asked me about it. Why didn’t you put any money in this program?
Johnson We have $3.5 million this year. We expect by September of this year we will have a proposed regulation for the registry. I believe states are developing registries.
Stevens Is there any direction Congress would give you with regards to spending money you would follow?
Feinstein You’re right. I put in the $3.5 million. They need it for two years.
Johnson We are working on a draft regulation. I intend to make sure we obey our mandate.
Stevens Do you remember in the old days we dealt with this by bureau reclamation? We eliminated the job of the person who refused to follow our direction.
11:48 Feinstein There is no way for us to restore those cuts. I don’t even know if we want to pass this budget. Why run for the Senate? Why act as an appropriator? Why put our names on a budget that we know is going to fail to accomplish our purpose?
Stevens We’re better off on the 2008 budget. Did you ever think about that?
Johnson We believe this budget is a good budget. It balances the needs for moving forward at the same time we have to be good stewards of taxpayer money.
Stevens You should bring back the message that in all likelihood we’ll send the President a continuing resolution for 2009.
Feinstein The cuts go on and on and on. For the first time he said in so many words we’re not going to recognize any Congressional add. You’re saying the president conditions all funding. We don’t even need an Appropriations Committee!
11:51 Stevens He ought to read the Constitution. Arrogance. Pure arrogance.
Feinstein There is no jointness. We are to be a rubber stamp for the President’s request.
Stevens I don’t think the President even knows some of these items.
Feinstein Let me sum up by saying this is a very unhappy budget. The hearing is adjourned.
EPA Set to Issue Legal "Justification" for CA Waiver Denial
Reporting yesterday on this week’s developments in the California clean cars saga, the Wall Street Journal’s Stephen Power revealed that "the EPA is expected to fire back this week by publishing data and research to support Mr. Johnson’s decision." Today’s Philadelphia Inquirer confirmed that such a document should "be released by tomorrow" via Johnson’s response to grilling on the waiver decision during a Senate hearing on EPA’s budget. (Regular readers may recall that his December announcement of the waiver denial was notably brief, resulting in much speculation since as to whether Johnson had fully determined his legal rationale before he made his mind up.)
We’ve been anticipating EPA’s belated justification, which is expected to be placed in the Federal Register, for some time now—both in terms of Johnson’s public promises and as a legal strategy in fighting California’s lawsuit. In a move that is probably not coincidental, EPA filed a motion last week asking the 9th Circuit to dismiss the existing case. Warming Law is still working to obtain EPA’s motion, but we’ve written previously on both its likely rationale, and on the unprecedented legal argument that Johnson will likely make to claim his actions can be justified under the Clean Air Act.
If Johnson goes this route, the legal effect would be one of giving the Administrator’s judgment extremely strong deference under Section 209 of the Clean Air Act. He would be interpreting the law in a way that his staff told him is legally impossible even if they accepted the auto industry’s criteria for judging waiver requests, and doing so based on the arguments that he:
1) Is legally empowered to break with agency precedent regarding what constitutes "compelling and extraordinary" conditions—instead adopting the "exclusive and unique" argument that Tuesday’s document release shows was first advanced in March 2006 by Bill Wehrum, a political appointee with prior ties to the auto industry (Wehrum has since left the EPA, and was recently spotted testifying in favor of a pair of coal-fired plants that Kansas regulators shot down last year based on global warming concerns).
Former EPA Administrator William Riley, who served under President Bush’s father, highlighted the historic scope of Johnson’s actions when he revealed yesterday that he was the receipient of impassioned talking points that agency staff prepared for him to press with Johnson. In his conversations with Johnson, Reilly focused on the argument that legal text, congressional intent and longstanding precedent all point to extreme deference for California’s wishes, and noted that the administrator need not agree with the state in order to let it move forward (emphasis added):
[In a telephone interview, Reilly told the Times] he emphasized that when he was the administrator, he approved nine requests from California, even one that he thought would not work, electric cars, but that he thought federal law required him to let the state try.
2) Also is empowered to declare climate change an intrinsically global problem that California need not employ its own standards for. This rationale, of course, stands in contrast to the thrust of the Supreme Court’s decision in Massachusetts v. EPA, and would also need to discount the state’s strong evidence that it is exceptionally vulnerable to global warming’s impact.
The Inquirer also reported that Johnson’s also gave generally evasive responses yesterday to questions from Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), regarding both his legal rationale and possible White House influence—with regards to the latter, Johnson claimed that the White House is still reviewing email communications and other documents that Boxer has yet to receive (and placed under a subpoena threat). Regarding the legal advice of his staff and Reilly, he reiterated that he has always sought out diverse opinions but the waiver decision was ultimately his alone to make.
Senator Whitehouse, for his part, later angrily compared Johnson’s testimony to that given by former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales during last year’s hearings on the dismissal of U.S. attorneys.
Pelosi, Bush Battle on Oil-For-Renewables Tax Package
Promotion of the renewable energy industry is the goal of the Washington International Renewable Energy Conference, which your Administration hosts next week. The conference offers a remarkable world platform to support a fiscally responsible commitment to these industries and technologies and the jobs they will produce. We urge you to reconsider your previous opposition to fiscally sound incentives for American renewable energy, and lend your support to this historic legislation in time for this occasion.
At today’s press conference, President Bush parried a question about his threatened veto of bill (after admitting ignorance about the likely $4 gallon gas this spring).
He claimed the cost-neutral bill would “cost the consumers more money and we need more oil and gas being explored for, we need more drilling, we need less dependence on foreign oil.” With respect to renewable energy, he discussed cellulosic ethanol and other biofuels, nuclear energy, and carbon sequestration, but not solar, wind, or energy efficiency.
QUESTION: Mr. President, back to the oil price tax breaks that you were talking about a minute ago.Back when oil was $55 a barrel you said those tax breaks were not needed, people had plenty of incentive to drill for oil. Now the price of oil is $100 a barrel and you’re planning to threaten a plan that would shift those tax breaks to renewables. Why, sir?
BUSH: I talk about some — some — of the breaks. This generally is a tax increase. And it doesn’t make any sense to do it right now. We need to be exploring for more oil and gas.
And taking money out of the coffers of the oil companies will make it harder for them to reinvest.
I know — they say, “Well, look at all the profits.” Well, we’re raising the price of gasoline in a time when the price of gasoline is high.
Secondly, we’ve invested a lot of money in renewables. This administration has done more for renewables than any president.
Now, we’ve got a problem with renewables, and that is the price of corn is beginning to affect food — cost of food and, you know, it’s hurting hog farmers and a lot of folks.
And the best way to deal with renewables is to focus on research and development that will enable us to — to use other raw material to produce ethanol.
I’m a strong believer in ethanol. This administration’s got a great record on it.
But it is — I believe research and development’s what’s going to make renewable fuels more effective.
Again, I repeat: If you look at what’s happened in corn out there, you’re beginning to see the food — the food issue and the energy issue collide. And so to me the best dollar spent is to continue to deal with cellulosic ethanol in order to deal with this bottleneck right now.
And secondly, the — yes, I said that a while ago — on certain aspects.
But the way I analyze this bill is it’s going to cost the consumers more money and we need more oil and gas being explored for, we need more drilling, we need less dependence on foreign oil.
And as I say, we’re in a period of transition here in America, from a time where we were — where we are oil and gas dependent to hopefully a time where we got electric automobiles, and we’re spending money to do that; a time when we’re using more biofuels and we take huge investments in that; a time where we’ve got nuclear power plants and we’re able to deal with the disposal in a way that brings confidence to the American people so we’re not dependent on natural gas to fire up our — you know, a lot of our utilities; and a time when we can sequester coal.
That’s where we’re headed for but we’ve got to do something in the interim. Otherwise we’re going to be dealing, as the man said, with $4 gasoline.
And so, that’s why I’m against that bill.
Coastal Zone Management Bills
The House Natural Resources Committee, Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife and Oceans, led by Del. Madeleine Z. Bordallo (D-GU), will hold a legislative hearing on the following bills:
- H.R. 3223 (Allen): To amend the Coastal Zone Management Act of 1972 to establish a grant program to ensure coastal access for commercial and recreational fishermen and other water-dependent coastal-related businesses, and for other purposes. (Keep Our Waterfronts Working Act of 2007)
- H.R. 5451 (Bordallo): To reauthorize the Coastal Zone Management Act of 1972, and for other purposes. (Coastal Zone Reauthorization Act of 2008)
- H.R. 5452 (Capps): To amend the Coastal Zone Management Act of 1972 to authorize grants to coastal States to support State efforts to initiate and complete surveys of coastal State waters and Federal waters adjacent to a State’s coastal zone to identify potential areas suitable or unsuitable for the exploration, development, and production of renewable energy, and for other purposes. (Coastal State Renewable Energy Promotion Act of 2008)
- H.R. 5453 (Capps): To amend the Coastal Zone Management Act of 1972 to authorize assistance to coastal states to develop coastal climate change adaptation plans pursuant to approved management programs approved under section 306, to minimize contributions to climate change, and for other purposes. (Coastal State Climate Change Planning Act of 2008)
House Debating Oil-For-Renewables Package Today
From the beginning of her tenure, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has attempted to pass legislation cutting billions in tax breaks and royalty payments to oil and gas companies to invest in renewable energy and energy efficiency. The legislation has died twice by a single vote in the Senate – in December as part of the energy bill (H.R. 6), and three weeks ago as part of the economic stimulus legislation (H.R. 5140).
House leadership announced plans to immediately reintroduce the legislation as a standalone bill, named the Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2008 (H.R. 5351).
Debate on the bill is now taking place, with a final vote scheduled for some time after 3 PM EST.
Update: HR 5351 passed by a roll call vote of 236-182. 17 Republicans joined the Democratic majority; 8 Democrats (Barrow, Boren, Cuellar, Gene Green, Lampson, Melancon, Ortiz, Rodriguez) voted against passage.
Extends: (1) the tax credit for production of electricity from renewable resources through 2011; (2) the energy tax credit for solar energy and fuel cell property through 2016; (3) the special rule for treatment of gain from electronic transmission transactions by certain electric utilities through 2009; (4) the tax credit for residential energy efficient property expenditures through 2014; (5) the tax credit for alternative fuel vehicle refueling property expenditures through 2010; (6) the tax credit for biodiesel and renewable diesel used as fuel through 2010; (7) the tax credit for nonbusiness energy property expenditures through 2009; and (8) the tax deduction for energy efficient commercial buildings through 2013.Allows new tax credits for: (1) investment in new clean renewable energy bonds and qualified energy conservation bonds; and (2) the production of plug-in hybrid motor vehicles, cellulosic alcohol fuel, and electricity from marine and hydrokinetic renewable energy sources.
Revises the definition of “passenger automobile” for purposes of the limitation on depreciation deductions.
Allows a tax exclusion for bicycle commuting reimbursements.
Revises certain tax incentives for investment in the New York Liberty Zone.
Revises tax credit amounts for certain energy efficient household appliances produced after 2007.
Allows a five-year recovery period for the depreciation of qualified energy management devices.
Places limits on the tax deduction for income attributable to the domestic production of oil, natural gas, and any related products.
Revises tax rules relating to foreign oil and gas extraction income and foreign produced fuel used or sold outside the United States.
FY 2009 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Budget
We are here today to review the Administration’s proposed Fiscal Year 2009 budget for the Environmental Protection Agency.WitnessSince this is the Bush Administration’s final budget proposal, let’s ask ourselves a simple question:
Is EPA better able today to protect people and communities from serious public health and environmental problems than it was when this Administration took the reins?
The answer is a resounding “No.”
The Bush Administration’s proposed budget for 2009 represents a 26% decline in overall EPA funding since the Administration’s first budget was enacted, when adjusted for inflation. Budgets are about priorities – this shows the low priority that the Bush Administration places on environmental protection.
- Stephen L. Johnson, Administrator, Environmental Protection Agency
FY 2009 U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Budget
- Stephen L. Johnson, Director. U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Pressed by House panel, EPA chief defends waiver decision (02/26/2008) Katherine Boyle, E&ENews PM reporterU.S. EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson defended his rejection today of California’s waiver request that would have allowed state regulation of motor vehicles’ emissions of greenhouse gases in the wake of the release of agency documents showing that top EPA officials strongly disagreed with him.
Appearing before the House Interior and Environment Subcommittee, Johnson said climate change is not a unique California problem and the state’s petition for a Clean Air Act waiver did not meet the “compelling and extraordinary conditions” required by law.
“Every time another governor, another state representative talks about the need for their state to address global climate change, they’re actually making my very point on the California waiver,” he said.
The Senate Environment and Public Works Committee released documents showing EPA staff members strongly supported granting the waiver.
A presentation prepared for the director of EPA’s Transportation and Air Quality, Margo Oge, urged Johnson to grant the waiver and suggested he would face great outside pressure to deny it.
“If you are asked to deny this waiver, I fear the credibility of the agency that we both love will be irreparably damaged,” the presentation says. “You have to find a way to get this done. If you cannot, you will face a pretty big personal decision about whether you are able to stay in the job under those circumstances.”
It is “obvious” there is “no legal or technical justification for denying” the waiver, says the presentation prepared by Chris Grundler, Oge’s deputy director at the National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory in Michigan.
Johnson said he only became aware of the presentation when Congress requested documents on the waiver decision.
“It was never presented to me,” he said.
Rep. Tom Udall (D-N.M.) pressed him, asking if Oge ever raised the issues in the presentation.
But Johnson again denied seeing the presentation, although he didn’t say whether Oge raised those points.
“I received a lot of comments from my professional staff, and they presented me with a wide range of options,” Johnson said. “One of the options was denial. One of the options was to grant the waiver.”
Johnson said he will issue a final decision document on the waiver by the end of the week.
Department of Interior’s oil, gas and mineral revenue programs
At the hearing, Chairman Feinstein will call for passage of legislation she has sponsored to close a loophole that has allowed oil and gas companies to pay no royalty payments for drilling on the Outer Continental Shelf for leases negotiated in 1998 and 1999. This measure to close the loophole was stripped from the FY2008 Interior Appropriations bill.
Under this provision, the companies who have not renegotiated their existing contracts will have a choice.
- They can keep their existing leases royalty-free if they so choose, but be barred from bidding on new contracts, or
- They can agree to renegotiate these leases in good faith and be able to participate in the bidding for new leases.
- C. Stephen Allred, Assistant Secretary for Lands and Minerals Management, Department of the Interior
- Randall Luthi, Director, Minerals Management Service
Boucher Releases White Paper on "Appropriate Roles for Different Levels of Government"
In the middle of September 2007, Rick Boucher (D-W.Va.), chair of the the the Energy and Air Quality Subcommittee of John Dingell’s Energy and Commerce Committee, announced he would be releasing a series of white papers “over the next six weeks” on issues related to the development of climate change legislation. The third such paper, Appropriate Roles for Different Levels of Government, has now been released.
- Oct. 3, 2007: Scope of a Cap-and-Trade Program
- Jan. 31, 2008: Competitiveness Concerns/Engaging Developing Countries
After reviewing state, local and regional initiatives to combat global warming emissions, in its discussion of the possible costs of local regulations in addition to a federal cap-and-trade system, the 25-page white paper bores in on the question of federal preemption. This issue was highlighted in December by EPA administrator Stephen Johnson’s denial of California’s waiver request under the Clean Air Act to regulate tailpipe greenhouse gas emissions. Johnson’s decision spurred a multi-state lawsuit, an investigation by House Oversight chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), and contentious Senate hearings.
The paper follows statements made previously by committee chairman John Dingell (D-Mich.) supporting Johnson’s stated justification for denying the waiver:One key factor that distinguishes climate change from other pollution problems our country has tackled is that local greenhouse gas emissions do not cause local environmental or health problems, except to the extent that the emissions contribute to global atmospheric concentrations. This characteristic of greenhouse gases stands in contrast to most pollution problems, where emissions adversely affect people locally where the emissions occur. The global nature of climate change takes away (or at least greatly minimizes) one of the primary reasons many national environmental programs have provisions preserving State authority to adopt and enforce environmental programs that are more stringent than Federal programs: States have a responsibility to protect their own citizens.In its concluding remarks, the paper summarizes the internal committee battle:
As the debate over whether the Federal Government should preempt California’s greenhouse gas motor vehicle standards has shown, Committee Members balance these various factors in a way that can lead to different conclusions that will need to be worked out through the legislative process. Chairman Dingell has made it very clear that he believes that motor vehicle greenhouse gas standards should be set by the Federal Government, not by State governments: greenhouse gases are global (not local) pollutants, multiple programs would be an undue burden on interstate commerce and would waste societal and governmental resources without reducing national emissions, and the competing interests of different States should be resolved at the Federal level. Other Committee Members have reached the opposite conclusion given the severity of the climate change problem, the need to push technological development, and the benefits of having States act as laboratories.
Luthi Before Interior Appropriations Tomorrow
Randall Luthi, the controversial chief of the Department of Interior’s Minerals Management Service, will be testifying at a Senate Appropriations subcommittee tomorrow morning. His decision to hold the Chukchi Sea drilling lease sale two weeks ago, the first offshore sale in over a decade, while the Fish & Wildlife Service continues to delay its ruling on the endangerment of polar bears, has garnered protests from government scientists, environmental groups and Congressional Democrats.
Sen. Feinstein, the chair of the subcommittee, released the following statement:At the hearing, Chairman Feinstein will call for passage of legislation she has sponsored to close a loophole that has allowed oil and gas companies to pay no royalty payments for drilling on the Outer Continental Shelf for leases negotiated in 1998 and 1999. This measure to close the loophole was stripped from the FY2008 Interior Appropriations bill.
Feinstein has been pushing for this legislation at least since 2006, since the loophole in 1998 and 1999 leases issued under the Deep Water Royalty Relief Act of 1995 was discussed in Congressional hearings.